翻译：米洛
Robert Pattinson should never have been Batman. Just ask the internet. How could the dude who played a sparkly vampire in the Twilight films ever be a superhero, they squealed. How could that guy who fantasised about mermaids in that weird black and white film about lighthouse keepers be Batman, they wondered. I thought you only wanted to play freaks, said his agent.
罗伯特·帕丁森永远不应该成为蝙蝠侠。问问网友你就会知道原因。在《暮光之城》系列电影中扮演会发光的吸血鬼的家伙怎么能成为超级英雄，他们高声嚷着。他们不明白，在那部讲述灯塔守护者故事的怪诞的黑白电影中幻想美人鱼的家伙怎么可能是蝙蝠侠。我以为你只想扮演怪胎，他的经纪人说。
But there’s the rub: Batman is a freak. A total weirdo who stalks the streets of Gotham City in a cape and black eye make-up. By any measure, it’s not normal behaviour. By any measure, it’s the perfect role for Pattinson.
但有一个问题：蝙蝠侠是个怪胎。一个彻头彻尾的怪人，穿着斗篷、化着黑色眼妆游走在哥谭的街道上。从任何角度来讲，这都不是正常的行为，然而对帕丁森来说，这个角色似乎是为他量身定制的。
“Batman is the only comic book character that I kind of really connected to,” says Pattinson. “There’s something central about it because he chooses to be Batman. It’s just a guy who chooses to be Batman and I understand that. It’s like, ‘You’re a freak,’ and if I can start from that, then you can kind of build around it.”
“在所有漫画人物里，蝙蝠侠是唯一与我产生了联系的。”帕丁森说，“这点其实比较重要，因为他决定要成为蝙蝠侠。这只是一个选择成为蝙蝠侠的家伙，我理解这一点。这就像是，‘你是个怪胎。’如果我能明白这点，那么我就可以围绕它进行进一步的角色构建。”
Pattinson and director Matt Reeves are embarking on an early round of publicity for The Batman, the 11th feature film about the caped crusader in 56 years. They are together for this interview but on separate video screens: Reeves is sitting up close and in the centre of his screen, while Pattinson is lounging further back and to the left of his. They are chatty and upbeat, giving long, thoughtful answers in our 15-minute slot, while I keep one panicky eye on the clock.
帕丁森和导演马特·里夫斯（Matt Reeves）正在为《新蝙蝠侠》进行早期的宣传，这是56年来第11部关于蝙蝠侠的电影。他们一起接受这次采访，但出现在不同的屏幕上：里夫斯坐得离摄像头很近，画面处于屏幕的中央 ，而帕丁森坐得离镜头较远，画面在左边。他们非常健谈，在短短15分钟的采访时间内，他们在深思熟虑后给出了非常详尽的回答，而我则是焦虑地盯着时钟。
“If he was just a straight down the line heroic character, I wouldn’t have known how to do it,” Pattinson continues. “Everyone thinks Batman’s, basically, between just a freak and a nuisance. And the people of Gotham, who he is protecting, they also don’t know how to interpret him. They think he is a criminal as well.
“如果他只是一个直截了当式的英雄人物，我反而不知道该怎么演绎了。”帕丁森继续说道，“基本上，每个人都认为蝙蝠侠介于怪胎和麻烦制造者之间。至于他所保护的哥谭市民，他们也不知道如何解读他。他们也觉得他是一个罪犯。”
“Because if you were down an alleyway, and people were trying to mug you, and a complete psychopath, who is essentially dressed up like the devil, came up to you, you’d be literally like, ‘Um, please don’t come anywhere near me.’ It’s more terrifying than being mugged, you’ll never get over that. You’ve got to be in therapy afterwards.”
“因为如果你走在一条小巷里，人们试图抢劫你，一个彻头彻尾的精神变态者——有着魔鬼一样的打扮——向你走来，你真的会说：‘呃，请不要靠近我。’（靠近我）比被打劫更可怕，你永远无法缓过来。事后你必须接受治疗。
At this, Reeves starts laughing. “Oh, come on,” he says.
说到这里，里夫斯开始笑了起来。“哦，拜托。”他说。
Pattinson keeps on going: “It really kind of emphasises that in the movie. Because normally, when Batman comes to your rescue, the reaction of the person is like, ‘Oh, thank you, Batman.’ But I don’t think that would be your reaction this time.”
帕丁森继续说道：“这部电影确实强调了这一点。因为通常情况下，当蝙蝠侠来救你时，这个人的反应会是：‘哦，谢谢你，蝙蝠侠。’但这次我不认为反应还是如此。”
In the five decades Batman has been on screen, we’ve had all sorts: Wacky Bat (Adam West); Pouty Bat (Michael Keaton); Fun Bat (Val Kilmer); Nearly Killed His Career Bat (George Clooney); Sexy Bat (Christian Bale) and Sad Bat (Ben Affleck). And that’s not including Lego Bat (Will Arnett). With cinemas and streaming services already inundated with superhero stories – and with Marvel serving up not just supermen, but superwomen and a vast array of superheroes with diverse backgrounds – why do we need another Batman movie? After all, isn’t he just a billionaire with daddy issues and a white saviour complex?
五十年前蝙蝠侠第一次出现在荧幕上，到了如今已经出现了各种版本的蝙蝠侠：古怪的蝙蝠侠（亚当·韦斯特饰）；易怒的蝙蝠侠 （迈克·基顿饰）；有趣的蝙蝠侠（瓦尔·基尔默饰）；职业生涯差点不保的蝙蝠侠（乔治·克鲁尼饰）；性感的蝙蝠（克里斯蒂安·贝尔饰）和悲伤的蝙蝠（本·阿弗莱克饰）。这还不包括乐高蝙蝠侠（威尔·阿奈特配音）。电影院里和流媒体上早已充斥着超级英雄的故事——漫威旗下不只有男性超英，还有女性超英以及大量拥有不同背景的超级英雄——我们为什么还需要又一部蝙蝠侠电影呢？毕竟，他不就是一个有恋父情结和白人救世主情结的亿万富翁吗？
“That’s the question we had to ask ourselves when we were making the movie, or we wouldn’t have made the movie,” says Reeves, who has made smart yet gloomy blockbusters, such as Cloverfield and the Planet of the Apes films, his specialty.
“这是我们在制作这部电影时必须问自己的问题，否则我们就不会拍这部电影了。”里夫斯说道。他曾创作过一些精妙的黑暗大片，比如电影《科洛弗档案》（Cloverfield）和《猩球崛起》（Planet of the Apes），他非常擅长（拍这类影片）。
“The character is so enduring. And there have been so many good movies, that I think what was important for us, was to be able to tell a definitive version. We needed to find a way to do a version of the character that touches on all the things that people love about the character – he’s a mythic, iconic character that has lasted for 80 years – but we needed to find a way to do it in a way that felt fresh. And I think that was the driving goal.”
“这个角色让人回味无穷。好电影有很多，对我们来说重要的是能够讲述一个明确的版本。我们需要想方设法打造一种角色版本，保留所有蝙蝠侠身上为人们所喜欢的点——他是一个拥有80年历史的传奇性经典角色——但我们需要打造一个让人耳目一新的版本。我认为这就是我们的目标。”
To do that, Reeves went back to the beginning. Not the beginning we all know –the murder of a young Bruce Wayne’s billionaire parents in a crime-ridden Gotham City – but the start of Batman as a vigilante. He read Frank Miller’s four-book 1987 comic Batman: Year One, where young Batman is struggling with his new identity, his transformation from man to myth. Reeves then decided to take it one step further, setting the film in the second year of Batman’s “Gotham Project”.
为此，里夫斯将镜头拉回到了开始的时候。不过并不是我们所熟知的开头——年轻的布鲁斯·韦恩（Bruce Wayne）的亿万富翁父母在犯罪猖獗的哥谭市被谋杀——而是以蝙蝠侠成为义警为开始。他阅读了弗兰克·米勒（Frank Miller）于1987年出版的由四期刊物组成的《蝙蝠侠：元年》（Batman: Year One），漫画讲述了年轻的蝙蝠侠因他的新身份而苦苦挣扎、从普通人转变成传奇的故事。里夫斯随后决定更进一步，将电影设定在蝙蝠侠“哥谭计划”的第二年。
It’s here we find Lieutenant James Gordon (Jeffrey Wright), gangsters Carmine Falcone (John Turturro) and Oswald Cobblepot (Colin Farrell), petty thief Selina Kyle (Zoe Kravitz) and a serial killer called the Riddler (Paul Dano). And it’s where we find our young Batman, working alongside the Gotham police department, investigating crime scenes and heeding the call of the bat signal. Whereas other Gotham cities have felt timeless, this one is contemporary, awash with smartphones, drugs and a villain who livestreams his kills and crowdsources ideas for gas masks on the internet.
在这里，我们找到了詹姆斯·戈登副局（杰弗里·怀特饰）、黑社会成员卡迈恩·法尔科内（约翰·特托罗饰）和奥斯瓦尔德·科波特（科林·法瑞尔饰）、小偷塞琳娜·凯尔（佐伊·克拉维茨饰）和一个名叫谜语人的连环杀手（保罗·达诺饰）。在这里，年轻的蝙蝠侠开始与哥谭警局合作，调查犯罪现场，并留心蝙蝠信号。在其他电影里，哥谭市给人以永恒的感觉，但在《新蝙蝠侠》中，哥谭是现代的，充斥着智能手机、du品，还有一个恶棍直播他的杀戮，并在互联网上征集关于毒气面罩的主意。
“Batman is just trying to make meaning,” says Reeves. “How do you make meaning in light of the fact that something totally random and awful happens to you when you’re 10 years old, and you can never quite recover from it? He’s struggling.”
“蝙蝠侠只是想在生活中创造意义。”里夫斯说道，“当你10岁的时候，一些完全随机和可怕的事情在你身上发生了，而你此后几乎再也没能恢复过来，那么你该如何创造意义？他在拼命挣扎。”
In the DC Extended Universe, The Batman is classified as a reboot. It’s not as high jinksy as Tim Burton and Joel Schumacher’s ’90s versions, nor as smug as Christopher Nolan’s 2000s trilogy, or as grim as the recent Justice League iterations. It’s styled as a noirish thriller, in the vein of the 1970s Al Pacino gangster drama Serpico, where the police are just as bad as those they arrest. It also rains. A lot.
在DC扩展宇宙中，《新蝙蝠侠》被归类为重启。它不像蒂姆·伯顿（Tim Burton）和乔尔·舒马赫（Joel Schumacher）的90年代版本那样让人抓狂，也不像克里斯托弗·诺兰（Christopher Nolan）的2000年代三部曲那样让人觉得嚣张，也不像最近的正义联盟系列那样令人难过。它是一部黑色惊悚片，就像1970年代的阿尔·帕西诺（Al Pacino）的黑帮戏《冲突》（Serpico）一样，警察和被他们逮捕的人一样可恶。天也总是下雨。经常下。
“I wanted the story to be one in which Batman himself was the character who had the arc,” says Reeves. “Where you saw an imperfect, flawed Batman who was in turmoil, who was grappling with himself, trying to figure out how to have an effect on the city that he couldn’t seem to have. Because, as with classic noirs, no matter what you do, the place continues to be corrupt. And watching him fight, not only to solve the case but also that he’s really in a major battle with himself, an internal battle.”
“我希望这个故事能够呈现一个内心复杂的蝙蝠侠，”里夫斯说道，“你能够看到一个不完美、有缺陷的蝙蝠侠，他处于内心动荡之中，不停地与自己作斗争，试图弄清楚如何能改变哥谭这个城市，尽管他似乎不能够产生什么影响。因为，就像经典的黑色电影一样，无论你做什么，这个地方都会有腐败滋生。我们看到他打架，（要明白）他不仅是为了破案，他同时也在激烈地进行自我斗争，一场内心的斗争。”
At 35, Pattinson is not the youngest actor to play Batman (that was Bale, who was 30 in Batman Begins), but his Batman feels younger. His hair is floppy and dyed black and his face is smeared with black eye-liner. He’s not a suave skivvy-wearer like Bats two, three and four. He doesn’t have the heft of Affleck or the look-at-me swagger of Bale. He’s more reserved, has little interest in being the public-facing billionaire Bruce Wayne, and prefers to spend his days writing in his journal. He’s Emo Bat.
现年35岁的帕丁森并不是扮演蝙蝠侠的最年轻的演员（那是贝尔，他30岁出演《蝙蝠侠：侠影之谜》），但他的蝙蝠侠感觉更年轻。他的头发松软，染成了黑色，脸上涂有黑色眼线。他不像第二年、第三年和第四年的蝙蝠侠那样世故。他没有阿弗莱克那样的体格，也没有贝尔那样的引人注意的气势。他更为内敛，他对成为大众眼中的亿万富翁布鲁斯·韦恩毫无兴趣，反而更喜欢把时间放在写日记上。他是多愁善感的蝙蝠侠。
“Batman is clearly a goth,” agrees Pattinson. “Look at all the graphic novels. I think in earlier interpretations of the movie, people were just scared of embracing that, so he ends up being way more clean cut. But in so many of the graphic novels, he is a very tortured soul.”
“蝙蝠侠显然是一个哥特风人，”帕丁森讲道，“看看所有的相关漫画就知道了。我觉得在早期的蝙蝠侠电影里，人们害怕接受这一点，所以角色最终呈现得更加干净利落。但在很多漫画里，他是一个心灵上备受折磨的人。”
When Reeves was writing The Batman, he watched Pattinson’s 2017 film Good Time, in which he plays a crook on the run. He knew then he had found his man. “I was like, OK, so we need somebody who you can feel that, even behind the cowl, there’s that level of emotional turmoil and desperation. And [in Good Time] Rob had such a palpable desperation, and even though he’s such a flawed guy, you still could totally empathise with him and could feel him basically in a freefall.
当里夫斯在创作《新蝙蝠侠》时，他看了帕丁森2017年的电影《好时光》（Good Time），在片中帕丁森饰演的是一个在逃的骗子。那时他就知道自己找到了合适人选。“我当时想，好吧，所以我们需要一个即使在蝙蝠头罩的遮掩下，也能传达出情绪动荡和绝望的人。（在《好时光》中）Rob明显表现出了内心的绝望，即使他是一个有缺点的人，你仍然可以与他共情，能够感受到他的人生处于坠落的状态。”
“Rob has a very special quality. And it was one of these things where I just wanted it to be Rob, before I was ever done with the script. And Rob had no idea.”
“Rob有一种非常特别的品质。在我完成剧本之前，我就觉得这个角色非Rob莫属，这种品质是我选择他的原因之一。不过Rob并不知道。”
For his part, Pattinson wasn’t intimidated about taking on a role so many have played before. For once in his career, he felt ready. “I never really know exactly what I want. And then, suddenly, when it appears, it feels very, very correct,” he says. “And with this, I was never really nervous about it. I’d met Matt and knew he was very responsive and wanting to talk about it a lot as well. And the script was very, very juicy and felt really different.
就帕丁森而言，他并没有因为接受曾多次被人扮演过的角色而感到害怕。在他的职业生涯中，他第一次觉得自己已经做好准备了。“我从来没有弄明白我自己想要什么。然后当这个角色突然出现时，你会感觉到就该是这样。”他说道，“对于这部电影，我并没有感到特别紧张。我见过马特，知道他反应非常热烈，也总是想要讨论这个角色。剧本内容非常生动有趣，让人感觉非常不同。”
“And I didn’t even really think that I was playing Batman a lot of the time. Even if you’re in the suit, you’d occasionally see yourself and go, ‘Oh shit, that’s what I’m looking like.’ It’s only now that I’m feeling that it’s going to be compared to other Batman films. I’m not even that worried, I think it works.”
“很多时候我甚至不认为我在扮演蝙蝠侠。即使你穿着蝙蝠衣，当你偶尔看到自己的时候，你还是会觉得：哦，糟糕，这就是我的样子啊。到了如今，我才意识到我的电影会与其他蝙蝠侠电影进行比较。我甚至没有那么担心，我认为我的角色扮演是成功的。”
Pattinson barely cracks a smile through the film’s three hours, either growling his way through Gotham or looking rather forlorn as Bruce Wayne. But his Batman is also, well, leaner than the rest. He doesn’t have the overtly muscular superhero body recently favoured by every actor to pull on a pair of tight pants. Even Kumail Nanjiani, who played the first south-Asian superhero in Marvel’s recent Eternals, has spoken of the body dysmorphia he developed as struggled to get his superhero six-pack in place.
帕丁森在三个小时的电影里几乎没有露出过一丝笑容，不是在哥谭低声咆哮，就是要展现布鲁斯·韦恩的阴郁气质。但他的蝙蝠侠也比其他蝙蝠侠更瘦。现在的演员都喜爱超级英雄那样肌肉发达的身材，会穿紧身裤来展示，但是帕丁森的身材还没有达到这一程度。就连库梅尔·南贾尼（Kumail Nanjiani）——他在最近漫威推出的《永恒族》中扮演第一位南亚超级英雄——也谈到了他练出来的畸形身材，他正在为了拥有超级英雄式的六块腹肌而努力。
Did Pattinson ever feel pressure to look a certain way?
帕丁森会不会对此有压力？
“I did this one interview that really came back to haunt me,” Pattinson says. “Literally, all I said was I think it’s really dorky to talk about how you work out. Kind of made a little joke about it. And then, literally, I saw [it was interpreted as], ‘Yeah man, I’m not working out at all’ and the amount of hate I got afterwards was like, ‘You’re not taking the part seriously!’”
“我之前做的一次采访给我带来了许多困扰。”帕丁森说道，“事实上，我表达的是我觉得谈论一个人如何锻炼真的很蠢。是有点开玩笑的意味。然后，我却看到（它被解释为），‘是的，我根本没有锻炼。’之后我得到的仇恨言论就诸如‘你没有认真对待这个角色！’之类的。”
He groans. “Like, it’s just a really lame thing to talk about. But also, it’s more embarrassing if you’re doing a very highly choreographed scene where you’re beating up 10 dudes and then when you take your shirt off, there’s absolutely no way that could have happened [because you don’t have muscles]. It’s part of the nature of the character.
他抱怨道：“讨论这种事情总让人觉得幼稚。但是，如果你刚好有一场精心编排的戏份，你要殴打十个人，然后你脱下衬衫，这种戏份绝对不可能发生（因为你没有肌肉），那就更尴尬了。这是角色本质的一部分。”
“It’s been hard, though. You’re working out before and after work every single day. And normally, when you’re doing long, long days on set, you’re like, ‘Oh, I’ll have a little chocolate bar’. That’s all off the table. Especially for certain scenes, you’re literally starving yourself. But, you know, you’re playing Batman. You kind of know what the deal is.”
“不过，这很难。你每天都在上下班前后锻炼。通常情况下，当你在片场度过漫长的一天时，你会想：哦，我要吃一小块巧克力。这是绝对不可能的。特别是对于某些场景，你实际上是在挨饿。但是，你知道的，你在扮演蝙蝠侠。你大概知道是怎么回事（你要怎么做）。”
罗伯特帕丁森记事簿 2022-03-06 0